Motherhood Unfiltered with Katy Murray
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Episode Summary
In today's episode, I sat down with Katy Murray, and we dove deep into the intricate dance of being moms and professionals and pursuing our passions.
Have you ever felt torn between your roles or unsure how to introduce your multifaceted self at the playground? Well, we touch on all of that. From late-night baby marveling moments to embracing our diverse identities, this chat is all about celebrating the multi-dimensional women we are. Join us for this heart-to-heart, where we find joy amidst the juggle. I can't wait for you to tune in!
Topics Discussed:
Exploring where and how Katy’s motherhood and entrepreneurship journeys meet
The importance of preparing the mind for life's evolving chapters
How Katy was balancing postpartum needs, seeking support, and granting self-permission
Understanding how entrepreneurial ambitions can adapt in the light of motherhood
The importance of discussing the dynamics and dialogues with partners when seeking assistance
How Katy is striking a balance between personal and professional demands to achieve fulfillment without being overwhelmed
About Katy:
Katy Murray is a business owner, entrepreneur, employee, mother and wife. Receiving multiple awards and recognition for her Photography Talent, Katy's images have been featured in over 30 publications. Katy has been a guest speaker at multiple Universities, on high ranking Podcasts and is the Host of her own Ginger Biz, the Podcast. On her podcast she shares all the tips and tricks to be successful in business, while also working full time, loving on her sweet family and practicing self care to maintain sanity. Katy is a fun loving business guru who wants to share her passions with the world.
Connect with Katy:
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Emily Gorrie (00:01.727)
Welcome to today's episode of the Project Mom Podcast. Today I'm chatting with Katie Murray. She is a business owner, entrepreneur, employee, mother, and wife. She is an award-winning photographer and has been recognized and featured in over 30 publications. She's also the host of Ginger Biz, her own podcast that shares tips and tricks for being successful in business while also working full-time, loving on her sweet family and practicing self-care to maintain sanity.
So Katie, welcome. Thank you so much for being here.
Katy (00:34.682)
Yes, thank you Emily so much for having me. I'm excited.
Emily Gorrie (00:38.195)
I am so thrilled. I said this to you before we hopped on this recording, but I think there's so much similarity and kind of validation in each other's stories that I'm excited to share yours today, with the women listening and the partners listening, because I think there's a lot of just truth and reality that can really lend a hand and support. So I wanna just dive into it and start with your journey of motherhood and entrepreneurship? Kind of where did the two intersect and how did you get to where you are today?
Katy (01:16.73)
Yeah, Emily, great, great question. And I'm excited to share. So my husband and I have been married about 11-ish years and, you know, we didn't have a child until about three and a half years ago. So I think that's around year eight is when we found out we were pregnant. And during the journey of our marriage, the first couple years, there's constantly any missed menstrual cycle was like, oh, this could be it, this could be it. And I was a roller coaster of emotions. I grew up thinking I was going to have 400 babies. Then I pivoted to thinking I was
never gonna have babies just because my mentality changed. And obviously a lot of this is geared towards like retrospect and what I'm thinking now of what I thought back then. But you know after a couple years of not um being able to conceive with my husband and stuff we just kind of went with the wave and said you know this isn't our calling for now and we moved forward until one morning in 2019 so quickly I went on a three-week trip to Europe.
Katy (02:14.638)
And one of those weeks was alone and my husband met me for the other two. And I came back. I remember on the airplane, I really felt weird, but I assumed it was just, it was a really long, it was a 12 hour flight. So I was like, okay, whatever. And then thereafter, I just wasn't myself. And so at first I thought I was like jet lagged. And then I thought like, okay, girl, you got to get your life to in order. Like start working out, start taking care of yourself. I started a new job. Life was going really well. but I just didn't feel great. And so I went to a newborn photo session, like one of those cutesy ones when you like pose them and have so much fun with them. And I came home and I was like, I'm gonna take another pregnancy test. And at this point, it had been, it was like the day before Mother's Day. And so it had been, I got back end of February or middle of March. And so it had been a while and I was like, I'm gonna take another pregnancy test. I already had two negatives. We're just gonna try this totally on a whim because I had baby fever because I was looking at this cute little squish.
Emily Gorrie (03:03.597)
Yeah.
Katy (03:12.842)
And that pregnancy test came back positive. And I was like, whoa, what? Like what? So I called my husband, maybe potentially use some swear words, like WTF, what is going on? And then I heard him like, I heard him like do something with the phone. And then he's like, wait, what, what'd you say? And I was like, I'm pregnant. And he like didn't, I mean, he believed me, but he didn't believe me, right? Cause we're eight years into marriage. We weren't trying, we didn't change anything. Like we weren't not protecting, we weren't actively trying, like whatever.
Emily Gorrie (03:24.5)
Yeah.
Katy (03:42.274)
So he drives home and later I was like, how are you gonna tell your boss? And he's like, oh, they already know. And I was like, what? And he's like, you were on speaker when you called. And I was like, oh, cool. Okay, that's awesome. He's like, yeah, that's why I didn't even, like I just left. Like they were just like, get out. Like you figure your life out. And so he got to leave. So that's how we found out we were pregnant. So fast forward, now I have a three and a half year old. I've ran a business for over a decade. We've had photography as a business since roughly 2009, but it became what it is in about 2013 when I did a name change and stuff. And so those were kind of like the intersections of when motherhood and entrepreneurial worlds collided for me. And it's been a whirlwind. I know we talked about this a little bit, but I stood in my living room with my new baby. It had become... We were trending towards the world pandemic at that point.
Emily Gorrie (04:41.666)
Yes.
Katy (04:41.802)
My daughter was born in December of 19 and we, you know, the declaration was made in like March 16th or 17th of, so she was like four months old. So I said in my living room and I decided I wanted to do a podcast. I want to do more with my business. And I think I a little overcompensated for the fact, like I didn't want my only identity be motherhood. So I started really embracing other aspects of my world and my identities so that I could go on and on. That's kind of, where motherhood journey started for me, I think to dive into that a little bit, I thought that because I'd waited so long to get pregnant and waited so long to carry a baby to term and then to have that baby in my arms, that it was just going to be rainbows and butterflies. And I actually struggled so much because my analogy is that I always wanted this baby and in my analogy, the baby's going to be a job. I always wanted this huge beautiful job and I had my mindset and I was willing to do anything for it. And I realized I was never going to get that job. So I said, okay, I'm going to make the most of this job and this life and this identity and embrace it. And then out of nowhere, that dream job came and said, yo, we're here, let's do this. And I honestly like resented it. I struggled with accepting that because again, in my analogy, I would have had to pack up and move across the country, I use quotes because it's an analogy, but all these changes that I thought that I really wanted this, I was like, but I don't think I want that anymore. But with a baby, she's growing inside of me. That was what it was. And when she was born, even I looked at her a couple of times and was like, maybe like my mom could raise her. Maybe my mother-in-law could raise her because like, this is not where I saw my future. This is I, I became abrasive to it, you know? So that's kind of the start of it.
Emily Gorrie (06:27.627)
Yeah, totally, totally. I mean, I so appreciate that analogy, because I think a lot of us can resonate with that. Especially in your personal experience, there was this desire for it for so long. You had strived to get that new big job that you had always foreseen for yourself. You always wanted kids. And then, you had come to terms with perhaps that wasn't the path that was meant for you. And then you get this desire for other things, and you put all your eggs in other baskets, and you create this life for yourself that you love. And then that job shows up, and you're like, wait, now? I have to say yes or no now? And yeah, at that point, it was a surprise. So I appreciate that analogy, because I think there's a lot of validity to our experiences of feeling like we have to give up something else in order to have motherhood. And that has been stories that have been ingrained in us through society and previous generations that as women, we are moms or we're not, right? There's no real, there hasn't been a way to balance that in the past. And I am just so grateful for stories like yours and sharing them because we can start to see that there are ways around this or option. This or that, not both. And I want to just touch a little bit on, before we kind of dive into your motherhood experience, at the time that you found out you were pregnant, were you also working as an employee for somebody else? So did you also have a full-time job at that point?
Katy (08:16.848)
Yes, yes I did.
Emily Gorrie (08:18.379)
Okay, so you are also balancing full-time job, your photography business, creating this life with your husband that doesn't include at this point motherhood, right? You were just kind of throwing caution to the wind at that point. So how do you, at that point, right, you're now faced with the fact that you're gonna become a mom and we're having these like emotional epiphanies almost of like, wait, is this really what I want? How are you supporting yourself through that? So you're pregnant. You're running this business. You're also an employee. How did you set yourself up in your mind at the time for success moving into this new stage of life?
Katy (09:04.854)
Yeah, great question, Emily. So for me, I had just accepted a new job that January, went on my three week vacation, which was planned between jobs anyways, and then started my job when I got back. So I was only like two months into this full-time job at the time of finding I was pregnant and still really working towards just growing and scaling the photography business and pouring everything into that. And I think it's important to note that I really took that job as a single person, like as my husband and I as only a wife, no mom in the title because my commute about an hour and a half. It can be more on bad days. So I was like, Okay, we'll just pick this and this is great because like I'm just missing time with my husband who's also working. So it makes sense. Like it's great. So I would say pregnancy and the growth of the business and just the mindset shift during that timeframe. Pregnancy, my hormones were raging, but actually in a great way. I was happy. I was, I could see the glow that people reference. Like I was doing great. I was exhausted and I would fall asleep sitting anywhere, which is not like me, but otherwise like pregnancy was really good. So at this point, I'm still hype, I'm still happy, still slightly terrified and having moments of like, OMG, what am I gonna do? But still not quite. It didn't-Emily, it didn't hit me until postpartum. It didn't happen until the baby was born when everything really went awry in my mind, if that makes sense. So going into that phase and going into the trimesters of pregnancy and stuff, we were still just coasting, thinking life was gonna be okay and having those lapses of like, oh my God, what is this? So nothing really hit until that postpartum phase though.
Emily Gorrie (10:50.099)
Yeah, maybe that's a good transition. I mean, talk to us a little bit about that postpartum phase. I mean, at that point, you're still commuting. How was your place of employment with your time off? How was the maternity leave? I mean, were they supportive? How were you supporting yourself in that postpartum period and still giving yourself permission, if you were, to have this photography business to have this full-time job, still have an identity outside of motherhood. How are you giving yourself that permission?
Katy (11:26.418)
Yeah, another good question. So I worked until the day before I gave birth. I was very determined. I was 10 days past my due date. So like, pretty sure everyone was like, please don't come to work. Like we don't. So the some of the older admin women brought towels to my desk, just in case. I was like, no, I think I think I'll know and being so far from home to my doctors, which people are further from home, but I was my doctors north of my home. So Yeah, so it's two hours from my doctor even. And I was like, it's fine. They always say your first one doesn't just like pop out. We'll be fine. So for me, that was maintaining my identity because ultimately I just didn't know what to expect in postpartum and I was like, why won't I have the most time that I can with the baby once it's born? And at this point, this is November timeframe. So I've only been at the job for roughly nine months long enough to make a human. And so I didn't have any benefits. I wasn't protected by FMLA. I didn't, I mean, I had some benefits like time off, but it is important to note, I started as a part-time employee at this job, so four 10s but with a part-time status, so I didn't have anything. And I just had an open conversation with my boss. I actually told him just before we announced on social media just before our families found out, because I really wanted him to know that I didn't pull the wool over his eyes, and I wasn't pregnant the whole time, because I wasn't. And thankfully, because I was equally surprised every time I told someone I was pregnant, he could tell. So they were super supportive. I was able to take the full 12 weeks off And so that was great and I could really focus on myself now. I know we'll dive into it a little bit later, but just to close that one out. I went back to work. I think March 16th. So I went through the rollercoasters of being like, okay, I'm gonna leave my child with someone else. It's a living being They're gonna take care of it and I went into work and about three o'clock that day my boss and us had a team meeting, multiples of us, and said, hey, some of us need to work from home because there's this global pandemic that's going on, and we're just not sure what's going on. So those of you that can work from home, so I was the first to be sent home. Me and another girl at my level were sent home. And that was a roller coaster because I went through all these emotions and then I get to be home, which is great. And a lot of my job incorporated getting everyone to be able to work remotely were operations based so we don't have any remote setup. So that was another identity that I could really invest myself in, while also I still did photo shoots up until the weekend before my daughter was born, you know, with the caveat and with the clients that could be flexible and stuff. So I really maintained the old Katie for as long as I could.
Emily Gorrie (14:11.603)
Yeah, yeah. How did the new Katie manifest? I mean, so you had essentially done what, and we talked a little bit about this too before, right? We've done what, you know, you did what you could in order to set yourself up for success and these additional identities that you have outside of motherhood before you walked into maternity leave. So you had kind of set yourself up to work as long as you could, you were able to be home. And some things started, you know, kind of serendipitously supported you in that. Whether or not we think the pandemic is serendipitous or not, we can talk about that in another way, I'm sure. But, you know, you were able to find ways to support yourself that way. How did the new Katie manifest? So now you have this new little baby girl at home and you're also working from home. I mean, did you - What did that look like?
Katy (15:12.962)
The new Katie, I'm like getting shivers, cause I'm just gonna be real and honest. That girl came out with a vengeance. Like once my baby girl was born, we didn't know her gender. She was cesarean, which was not what I wanted, quotations. And that new Katie just was like, I'm here and I'm not going anywhere and I'm terrified and I don't know what to do. And I feel like I'm trapped in a word that you had used was suffocated. And that is so right. Like this girl, just came out and was like ready to eat me alive. And it was really, really hard. In the episode that we talked to, because you were on my show last week, just so listeners have perspective, we talked about I was in the military. And so I had went off the grid for a bit. That gave me good preparation for my business. So I knew how to be off the grid, but still be functioning as a business and people thinking I'm still out there, which could not have been better for me because postpartum this new Katie, this new mompreneur that came out was really challenging for me. Postpartum, motherhood, those were just terms that just didn't don't bring me joy. Um, to the point that at one point in my pregnancy, I told a coworker, I was like, I hope my kid just calls me Katie. Like I don't want to be mom or mommy or mama or any of those. And. You know, three years and it's totally different, but that new Katie was just very dark. I was in a very, very struggling to understand conceptually that I could take care of this child. I was like, how can I take care of anyone? All of my worlds are now colliding. Everything's falling to shambles and I don't know what to do. So that's how the new Katie came out at the time.
Emily Gorrie (17:03.239)
Yeah, I mean, that really resonates with me. I think there's a lot of us that experience this suffocation, right? This, I mean, no light at the end of the tunnel. What we were so capable of doing in the past is no longer feasible for us. And a lot of it is mindset, right? And I think we recognize that now we look back on it and we're like, okay we are very much capable of taking care of this kid. We've proved it thus far, but our minds really get the best of us. And whether that be just like stories and narratives for ourselves, whether that be some level of like, postpartum depression or anxiety that has really come from physical manifestation of our hormones going wild, right? I mean, these are things that are out of our control. I mean, I think that becomes the part that's also the more challenging bit of like, how do I, this doesn't feel good to me. Right? The new Katie was scared and terrified and just, you know, I bet those weren't feelings that you loved having, right? It wasn't like you woke up every day being like, Oh, I feel great because I'm really scared. Right? These are feelings that we don't know necessarily how to always overcome. And sometimes I know personally, like for me, it felt like I made that choice to be a mom, my husband and I were actively trying. So like we made this choice for ourselves. And for me, it was like, oh. And now I have to live with it. I made this choice, this is it. I have to deal with this and like find a way to be happy with this scenario. And I think that's the misconception. So I appreciate kind of you sharing that because there's this like challenge of having to overcome these feelings and not really knowing how. So maybe walk us through a little bit at this point. And then I wanna get into a little bit later down the line, how you support motherhood and your businesses. Maybe talk to us a little bit about the support you did get to kind of pull yourself out of these nine months to a year after your daughter was born. And we talked a little bit about it. And I think it's such an impactful story and kind of the gap in care that I would love for you to share it with us.
Katy (19:26.602)
Yeah, absolutely, Emily. So one thing that I think kind of helps this is the myth of solarpreneurship. Whereas when you come in to be an entrepreneur, you have this mindset that you have to do it all. And I'd mostly exclusively been doing it all for my businesses up until this timeframe with my daughters, with the pregnancy and with her being born. Now granted, I don't believe in solarpreneurship. Like my husband was a support, you know, there's so many other things, but we have that mindset. I talk about soopernicious and how it's a myth, like we have to overcome that. Well, I stepped into motherhood the same way. I am this child's sole provider, like all the things that come in around us. Like you said, generationally, like my mom, my mother-in-law, my grandparents, like women stay at home and take care of children. So I was like, okay, does this mean I just quit my life? Like there was that there was all these other feelings that were involved in it that my picture didn't look like their picture. And I'm coming from this business mindset of like, well I will make this work. I will make this work. Nobody else can help me. Nobody else can do anything. And that was not good. Obviously. Right? And so we did, we were blessed that my brother-in-law came and stayed with us when she was about three, four months old and stayed with us for a couple of months. And so he stayed from like February, March till August. So I had that support. So if she didn't need to breastfeed or wasn't inconsolable, like he could help. My husband actually, because of the pandemic, worked from home for two months, so I had that support as well. There was so many different elements of support. And one thing I wanna pause and say, I don't care if your mom lives with you or you have an au pair or whatever, you still have feelings, right? And for me, it was validating, acknowledging, and then working through those feelings. And that was so important because, and Emily, we talked about this a little bit, I had this crazy fear that anytime my husband tripped, he was just gonna die. And I want to laugh, I want to joke about that, but it was genuinely so serious for me. And the day that I told my doctor about it, whoo, I could breathe again. Like I was able to acknowledge it and move forward from it. So then when he did fall, I'd be like, you're not dead, right? And he'd be like, yeah, I'm still here. And I'd be like, okay. And like, We just got in front of it and owned it and then coped with it in a very healthy, realistic way. And so those are some of the supports that I had, like things that I didn't even know that I had or needed. So talk therapy for me is huge. Just talking about anything is such a release for me. And so having those supports in place and even having the gap where it was just him and I for months with the baby for the first couple, two to three months we would go sit at his work with him sometimes. Like that's what I needed to make sure that I was caring for the baby. And then for the business side of things, it's just having plans in place. And I know Emily, you've done this for your podcast and whatnot is really being intentional with that content creation, getting in front of it, getting it out there so that you're not missing a beat, but you're also not missing a beat. You're not missing time with that newborn, but you're also not missing business time.
Emily Gorrie (22:41.635)
Totally, and you're supporting yourself in both of those facets, right? You're not then making a sacrifice for your business identity or your identity outside of motherhood because you feel necessarily that you have to in order to be a good mom and to be there for your kid. And I really appreciate the kind of phrase that you shared of like solopreneurship is a myth, right? It absolutely is a myth. And I think that is huge in just putting light on and you said it, right? Talk therapy, putting it out there, sharing things with your doctor, saying, you know, sharing your fears with your husband, you know, being able to say, wait, are you actually okay, right? Being able just to look at light and put light on things that maybe aren't serving you anymore, whether it's these like really, you know, really heavy duty feelings or trying to do everything yourself. I think that is just a huge piece of the puzzle of like, okay, you shouldn't actually have to do this by yourself. And I wanna talk a little bit about your priorities with your business after you became a mom. So this change in, you know, the season of life came for you. You were navigating, supporting yourself through that in those first couple of months, getting the support you need, sitting with your husband, right, doing all of those things. How did, or did your, I guess maybe it's the more general question, did your priorities shift in your business and how did you support yourself in executing those changes needed?
Katy (24:20.55)
Yeah, another really good question. So I believe that business is always evolving and changing. And the only thing that showed me that to its truest is having a child, right? Because that every day is a new day. And so my priorities shifted in the sense that number one, the pandemic happened. So a lot of our hands were tied, which both good and bad, right? You know, imagine having a newborn baby and you're nervous about germs and then all of a sudden like global pandemic and you So like there's all of that. Then add a formula shortage and all these other things to it. And you're just like, okay, this is cool. We're just going to go live on a farm. So there was all that and there's the mom guilt, right? So my business for those first couple years, I had already kind of given myself grace. I'd, you know, as I came up to having the baby and knowing I was pivoting that way because again, at this point, that's where we are. I knew that my work schedule was going to change and that I'd have to be fluid in that, which then also, of course, would mean that my business had to change. And so what I had to start doing is really just embracing those changes and those shifts and those built in structured evolution of it. Like, you know. For the first couple weeks, your baby is just changing every single moment, right? And then all of a sudden, a couple weeks in, you get these gassy smiles because you're like, wow, my baby has personality. Really, it's just gas, but that's okay. And like, just keep moving like that. So what I had to do is learn to do that with my business. And honestly, I feel like if you can learn that without having a child, awesome, because our businesses are always changing and always growing and always moving. And that's good. None of us want a child or a business that doesn't grow and change, right? And so just learning to embrace that was kind of my priority shift to say, okay, I'm going to, you know, more tangible logistics speaking is we had to set up schedules for ourselves. Sundays was a family day, no deal. There's no nothing could change that we wouldn't book sessions. The only exception if needed was if it was a wedding and it was at a dream venue that I had. But otherwise we wouldn't do any work on Sundays. And then like certain days of the week had to be like working days versus non-working days. And for us, that meant you'd come home from work one night and you might work on the business because it was a Tuesday and we had that flexibility. Then mentally my husband could prepare that he was going to be focused more on the child and getting dinner ready where I could knock some things out. And we just had to keep that pivot and it would change week by week, month by month.
And so that's how the priorities kind of shifted. And it was really just getting more intentional with our time.
Emily Gorrie (27:11.615)
I love that. I think there's something to be said about just standing up for yourself saying like, I wanna make this happen somehow. Like how can we best make this happen? And I want you to talk a little bit about that communication with your husband on this. I think sometimes there's a, and I'm curious if you experienced it. I know for me personally, there was a level of resentment for me that was, present with my husband, he gets to go to work, he gets to close the door and he is mentally there. And I knew for me, I mean, I started this podcast out of that like suffocation I had the first year of her life, but once, you know, past that, it was even sometimes when I was with my daughter, I was thinking about the podcast, or sometimes if I was working on the podcast, I was thinking like, oh, what's my daughter? Did I pack her lunch? Should I do these things? We have all these other things running through our heads. So how did the communication or what did the communication look like with your husband when you were sitting down or wanting to sit down in order to say, I need help and I needed to look a little bit differently because the way that my life is functioning is now different.
Katy (28:24.818)
Yeah, so the funny thing with that, and don't start throwing trash at me or whatever, is that my husband, he just, he just embraced it. He loved being a dad. He loved our daughter so stinking much. And if anything, that's where my resentment comes from, that it was so natural for him to love her, whereas for me, I felt like I had to work for it. But outside of that, which I don't I've never really verbalized that because I don't feel like it was there in the moment. But there was a little bit of tension obviously between us because we just brought a stranger in the house. He just jumped in with both feet and it got to the point where like I kept joking like throughout pregnancy and then into the first couple of weeks. I was like, we're both alive when you get home. It's been a great day. Like that's all that we're doing right now. And here's hoping she's fed. And so it would be it became you would just come home and instantly serve us. Katie, did you eat today? Let's get you some food. And he would text me non-stop, Hey, did you eat? You should eat now. You should eat again now. Like constantly. Did you drink water and he became the caregiver for us as a unit. And so I didn't, we still had to communicate of course, but like he was just for that serving mindset, he was just there for me. And then it did get to the point where I was like, I want to start comforting her when she's upset, or I want to start doing more in her life and I'm ready for it. Cause there were times when I just sat there crying, holding her and he'd be like, do you want me to take her? Like, what are we doing here? I'm like, no, this is a good cry. We're just so in awe of this And then other times would be like, no, this is a falling apart cry. Go ahead and take the baby. And so just keeping that chain open. And I think being the more I became honest with where I was at mentally, the easier it got for all of us. So not being ashamed and not being quiet about the reality of what was going on inside of my mind and my heart, I think really helped. So just that. I don't think any communication is bad. Like just any communication, even if it's crying, even if it's joyful even if it whatever it is because that's what kind of got us through and I think too my podcast stemmed from having a child and standing in the living room with her and realizing like it's okay to be in awe of your baby and holding her but also crave more and want to be working on content or doing a new photo shoot and the last thing i'll say about that too where my world's truly collided and where the communication piece really became evident was actually about one year, maybe 12 to 13 months when she was that age, she came to a photo shoot with me because we had to do a rain date and we had to pivot and all this stuff and the clients like my mom actually is like a full-time baby teacher for like infants or something. I didn't, I don't remember the details. I was like well I've never done that and she's like well it's okay because like it was a rain date we have to pivot and your husband's not available so I did it. I went And I will say I regretted every single moment of it. Every single moment. Because I realized that I didn't want my worlds to collide. I wanna have multiple identities and I wanna take the hats off when I want to, but not in that moment. Because my child only wanted me, she didn't want the stranger, respectfully, that makes sense. But then I didn't feel like I poured into my client. Now I will say the client loved their images, life was fine. But I knew that I couldn't handle the emotional capacity that took to navigate both And so I went home that night and told my husband, I was like, this is never happening again. We have one more shoot like two weeks from now with a return client. It's not happening. Like help me find a babysitter or figure your schedule out so we can do this. And that was like, that's when the communication really became a necessity because I can't have my world collide like that. Like it just doesn't work. I didn't have the bandwidth to entertain that ball of stuff.
Emily Gorrie (32:14.231)
Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I want to, I have multiple goosebumps from things that you just said in that strip. And I want to just touch on the first one briefly, which was the minute you were honest about what was going on inside of you, that level of communication really opened the door to your husband being able to show up for you in a way that was the most supportive, without having to tell him. And I think Personally, there was a learning, that is a learning necessity for me the second time around. And I think I appreciate you saying that because it feels so ingrained in me that I feel like I just learned something that's gonna support me in this second pregnancy and newborn stage. So thank you, because I think for me, it was the toughest time was feeling like this was it and it just had to be it. And I like couldn't ask anything of anyone else because this was a choice that I made. And I think just sharing those feelings with those around you opens the door to more communication, but also to allow them to show it for you in a way that you don't feel like you have to tell them to. Like I think a lot of us feel some level of resentment or frustration with our partners because quote unquote, and this is so personal to me, like in my mind, their lives don't change as much, right? Physically, we go through so much. The need to find a babysitter, everything falls on us. And I think having that emotion to be out there and to say to your husband, this can't happen again, these inter weaving of my worlds can't happen again, is so huge because it allows him to show up and step up in a way that you don't have to be telling him when you're upset, right? You can then be clear. And I think that brings us to the second piece that gave me goosebumps, which is like this vulnerability of the reality of like, I tried it, it was a lesson learned. I'd never wanna do those two things at the same time again, which leads to boundaries. So maybe you can talk to us a little bit about some boundaries that you've set in your business or in motherhood that have really allowed you to find fulfillment in both and not feel like you're overwhelmed and you can't give capacity to your client because you have a kid who's only wanting you at that moment. What did some of those boundaries look like for you and what were some of the experiences that led to those also?
Katy (34:54.858)
Emily, really quick, pause. I have one other thought that I want to share to that. So can I say it and then answer this question? Okay.
Emily Gorrie (34:58.987)
Yeah, perfect. Yeah, absolutely. Go for it.
Katy (35:04.79)
Emily, one thing that you said twice now, I think, is that you chose this, right? That you said that you guys were intentionally trying to get pregnant and this is what you wanted, right? I think that two things, it's okay to change your mind and it's okay to one day be like, well, why did I sign up for this and still love your child? You can love your child without liking them, okay? We've all had a best friend who noise the crap out of us and we still love them. And I think that that's only magnified in motherhood, right? Cause like I love my child, but when she decides that she's gonna dump, I said this last week, when she decides to dump chocolate milk all over my car, I really don't like you right now. And so that's okay. And then I think that on a similar level, though I can relate to that, because even though it's self-inflicted that we think that we sign up for this, so live with your decisions I know that people would constantly congratulate me and I always felt it was backhanded. They'd be like, oh, congratulations, Katie. You've always wanted this. Yes, well, I stopped wanting it about five years ago when it didn't happen. Thank you. Not that I don't want my child and I don't feel like I need to preference that right now, but I too understand what you mean because people would always almost, and I don't think anyone intentionally meant it, but they'd flip it back on me like, well, you've always wanted this. Or like, I had really bad morning sickness and people would say like, Well, at least then like now you're pregnant. Like you asked for this. You wanted this. Isn't this great? Or like one that I think we talked about last week is the sleeping. People are like, oh, well, if you're not sleeping well now, wait till you have the baby. And I was just so get the frick out with your negativity. I can want my job and it can be hard to wake up in the morning to get to work. Okay, I can love my job and it can be hard I can love my house, but hate gardening. There's so many things that we can love them without loving every little attribute of it.
And so my challenge to you, and I think that you're very, very in touch with your feelings, is move on and let that go when you can, because that's how I was. I was like, you know what? I don't have to tell everybody that, yeah, I wanted this, but now I don't, or give them the analogy of finally getting the job offer that now I no longer want. We all have our stint of that, I guess. And for me, that was mine. And the other thing I was gonna say is that my husband and I, when we went through this, my mom kept telling me how amazing my husband is and how he helps so much. And I remember I was driving her to the airport, so it was pretty ballsy. And I looked at her and I said, did you ever ask dad for help? Mic drop. She was like, no, why would I? And I was like, because you needed help. And she's like, yeah, but Philip just does it. I was like, Yeah, because it's eight years of marriage he's been conditioned to know my needs just like I know his and I think that it's okay to ask like wives or Husbands or whoever if your partner's not giving you what you need It's okay to communicate those needs like and it's okay to do it lovingly I'm not saying you have to complain or bark orders, but like they may not know that you're struggling inside and My doctor and my husband I don't think knew the magnitude of the severity of my postpartum depression until one day I just was bawling in my doctor's office and he's like, whoa, this is not what I thought it was. So I just throw that out there too, because like generationally, my mom didn't know or didn't think or didn't have the bandwidth to ask for help and it could have helped her so much. So don't sit back and think, and I do this all the time that my husband can read my mind and so it's amazing, like we still put work in, we still learn each other and have to ask for help.
Emily Gorrie (38:42.667)
Yeah, I love that. I wanna touch on that too, because I think that's a huge piece of the puzzle that a lot of us don't. really recognize until we've struggled through it for a while. And I think there's that, right, it comes back to being honest and open and in touch with the feelings that we have, right? You said, you know, when you shared that with your doctor, like some of those feelings, he was like, wait, where was this coming from? And I don't know if you just said it or if this was part of the conversation we had last week when we recorded the episode for your podcast. But like, he was like, where did this, you know, where nine months in? Like, where? Why is this showing up all of a sudden? And it's really, we have to be our own best advocates in order to share those feelings and communicate the struggles we're having or the fears we're having. And I think that is so true in motherhood, but also in business. And it comes right back down to that solopreneurship is a myth, right? You should not be going at this alone, especially if it feels overwhelming. I mean, there's, I'm sure, parts of us that, and parts of the business and parts of motherhood that we love doing. So how can we show up and do the parts that we love and then find the support that we need in the areas that move the needle forward, that keep our children alive and keep them happy and all of that, but get support because we don't have to do it alone. I love that
Katy
And that's something that when you were telling me about what you do, and we were talking on the other episode, I love that you just do project based things because like, I just signed up for 18 years of this new human that's in my life. That's a total stranger. Like I don't know what I want a year from now, but I know that I I'm not ready to give up my business. So let me reach out to you for some project help while I'm still navigating this avenue. And, and you kind of hit on it too. Like you can struggle in content writing for your business, breastfeeding but neither of those number one cross over to the other so you're not struggling in all avenues and heck maybe I suck at breastfeeding my kid because my body's not producing that's okay she's being fed right that doesn't mean that I'm not bonding with her well or I'm not freaking amazing at changing poopy diapers right like there's so many elements that go into it and I think that When you're in that dark space, it's hard to see that, but holding on to the day to day of like, we did make it through today and we are okay and this is going to be okay. And then leaning on resources like for the business. I don't want to plan content. So let me work with you on this project or that project and whatnot. So definitely. Totally, totally.
Emily
I want us to jump back to boundaries really fast because I think that is super important. And I know initially I had posed the question to you of like, what are some of those boundaries? But I wanna talk a little bit before we get into maybe some of the tangible boundaries that you've set for yourself and your businesses and being an employee. So how do you kind of keep the how do you keep the hours that you're at work, at work, for the company you work for? How do you find the time to do your photography business and then find the time to be a present, full-time loving mom? Before we get into some of those tangibles, I want to talk a little bit about the emotions behind empowering yourself to set those boundaries. You know, kind of where did that empowerment come from? Like, at what point did you like recognize like, the powers from within me and how do I give myself permission to do things that work for me?
Katy (42:30.038)
That's a great question. I think it's still always evolving. I'll say that like Once I realized it was okay to ask for help, that was a pivotal moment. It was okay to let my brother-in-law just watch the kid without me being close by. It was okay to go and take a shower and get myself ready so that I did feel good and look good, if you will, so that I could approach the day. Really just navigating those feelings and slowing down, I feel like, was really important for me because Some people say you can do like the worst case scenario, like think of the worst case scenario and then rationalize that's not gonna happen. No, I can make that happen. Like I could think through it. So For me, it was less thinking of like, well, this is how it's gonna turn out and everything's gonna be okay. It was just slowing down, letting those emotions and feelings be real and then finding empowerment of how to overcome them. And honestly, to this day, I'm still proud of what I can do. I'm still proud of the fact that yesterday was basically 100% quality day with my child because of the other boundaries and other basically empowerment things I put in place to be able to be successful. But those emotions, and it doesn't happen overnight, right? I'm not saying to listeners who are currently approaching, you know, their birth or in the midst of that postpartum. It's not like all of a sudden I just boom it worked. It is a mindset shift and you do have to say, okay, so like one thing that I would do, which is very tangible, is I'd be looking at my child, I'd be rocking her late at night. That first season my husband worked until like one in the morning sometimes and it seems to just be worse in the night. So I'd be holding her and I'd start spiraling and I'd start getting emotional and be like, how am I going to help you live? How am I going to do this? And I would literally just look at her and be like, honestly though, how are you such How are your little eyelashes there? And then I let that release happen, but I would pivot that mindset. Instead of being like, woe is me, how the heck am I gonna do this? I'd be like, how are you so amazing? And honestly, as stupid as it sounds, it was a release. And then I'd just be rocking there in the dead of the night, rocking this little baby, crying my eyes out because she was so amazing. And then I was like how am I gonna open my heart up and love you to the point that I want to? And every day it's gonna ache a little more because it's stretching and growing and you're freaking making my love so much more than it ever has been. And then just get so like, then it became almost joyful tears like, wow, I have this opportunity and what are you gonna grow up and do? And then I just spiraled and changed that mindset. And I, saying it out loud, it sounds so cliche, like how do you do that, right? but you just have to let the emotions come out and as they seep out, kind of redirect them and embrace that change. And they're still gonna be hurt in there. They're still gonna be pain in thinking of that. Cause I'm like, well, what if, what if you go to school one day and you get hurt? Like as I'm envisioning her becoming the president, you know, and then all of a sudden I'm like, but then what if someone wants to hurt you? And they're like, no, we're just gonna focus on the good right now and get that released. And then I go lay her down in bed and I'm like, okay, wow. I, We accomplished two things. You're asleep, you're cared for, but I also had that release. And now I can rest a little bit.
Emily Gorrie (45:55.711)
Yeah, I love that you share that. I think for me, one of the biggest challenges I found was being able to relax myself after. So I did what I needed to do to take care of my daughter. Mill of the night, my adrenaline was pumping at that point. I found to be able to get up and to care for her and to feed her and to rock her back to sleep and all of that, I found that when I went back to sleep, I couldn't sleep And I think that it's huge that release that you're talking about of being able to say. This is not my reality right now. Those fears that I have is not the current reality. What is my current reality? She's safe, she's breathing in her crib. In this moment in time, it is safe for me to rest my body and to get some sleep and recognize those emotions that I am spiraling, that I'm fear mongering down 10, 15 years in time or thinking that in an hour she's not gonna be breathing and trusting that we will get the info that we need when we need it about our kid, trusting that we will get some sort of indication if something is wrong and allowing our bodies to release those fears and to rest. And I so appreciate you sharing the way in which you were able to accomplish that. For me, it was just talking myself off a ledge, internal monologues. And for you, it's a lot of that restructuring from what you're saying, restructuring or reframing of the mindset of like, yes, this is really hard. Maybe we don't have all the answers, but in this moment, you are a miracle. You are beautiful. Your little eyelashes. I grew you. You could be anything you want. You can, you know, it's, it really is important to find what works for you in order to do that.
Katy (47:52.778)
Yeah, and like one thing I challenge moms to do is ask yourself this, are you gonna be worried when they start grade school? Are you gonna be worried when they go into high school? Are you gonna be worried when your son meets the love of his life, like when he starts dating? Like I'm nervous for my daughter to have her heart broke, but honestly I'm more nervous for the boy's hearts that she breaks, like, or girls, whatever, whoever she, she's gonna break hearts, I just see it. But ask yourself, like, are you gonna be upset about that? Are you gonna have to work through that? And the answer's probably yes, right? So table that you have a two and a half year old, I have a three and a half year old, I'm not even bridging the conversation of elementary school or public school right now. Like I know that when I put her in this learning center, which is a daycare that she's in five days a week, it was emotional. It was such a roller coaster. I micromanaged and nitpicked them for the first couple weeks and then realized that they're amazing. And then I tabled it, right? So like I can't worry about putting my kid through college when I'm sitting here worrying if I'm going to feed them tomorrow. Like, I know I'm going to feed her tomorrow, but you have to kind of, if your normal emotional coping skills are not kicking in, ask yourself, am I going to be worried about this later? Perfect. I'll worry about it once. I'll worry about it then. And that kind of pivots with the boundaries and moving into that conversation because even for this podcast, I don't really get nervous for clients anymore for podcasts or anything. I've settled down a little bit. I've chilled out over the years and that's probably because previous Katie over compensated and got way too nervous. But if I'm coming into this and I'm going to think about it next week when I'm slating out my week and I'm going to go through our show notes, I'm just going to do it and get ready then Or, or I'm gonna wait till this morning and give myself 15 extra minutes to revisit everything we're gonna go through. Instead of worried about it last week, being like, well what if she asked me a question that's a curveball? What if I say too much? What if I'm too transparent? Meh, we'll deal with that next week. And then here we are today, recording. And honestly, sometimes I'm like, maybe this is TMI, but it's like, eh, we'll deal with that when it comes out. And if it resonates with one person, or it helps one person, or one person hears it and it strikes a chord, we're good then. And so that's kind of how I've pivoted my motherhood slash business journey and fed them into each other, is really taking transferable skills from either set and then putting them together. And a little bit too on the boundaries side is also just being intentional with your time. I think that, and we kind of came into this talking about how, or wanting to talk about how we set boundaries, but also how I'm able to work full time, run a business, and be a mother. And these two subjects just collide so much in the best of ways. And the first thing that I would say is just the dual identity, really embracing multiple identities. You're a multi-passionate person, as I am. Then you just really have to accept and be proud of the fact that you have these different hats and these different identities. And it's OK to have a different answer, depending on who asks you what you do, right? Because if someone in my workplace says, what do you do? I'm going to say I'm the head of human resources at a private organization and I do this, this and this, right? But if I'm at the park with my kid and someone's like, what do you do? I'm probably going to say like, oh, well, that's my little girl and I run a business and I work and it's going to be that. And then if I'm sitting here on a podcast and you say, what do you do, Katie? Then I'm going to gear it towards like those sort of things. And this one's an exception because this is about motherhood. So it's both those worlds colliding, but really embracing and knowing that it's okay to have multiple identities and it's okay to apply them at certain points in life, right?
Emily Gorrie (51:47.319)
Yeah, I love that. I think there's so much to be said for embracing the moment we're in, right? It's like you can give yourself permission to be that employee when you're at work, and you can give yourself that permission to be the mom when you're at home with your kid, and when you're out with a client doing a photo shoot. There's room in our lives for all of it, and I think that's the piece that I get hooked up, like, you know, what sort I'm looking for, like, stuck on and, you know, possibly other women who are looking to start a business and they're also working. Or they are a full time stay at home mom and they want to add something to their plate. It's like, how do I find the time to do that also? And it's the permission to recognize that there's enough time in our lives to do all of it and to be all of it, just not at the same time. Right. We don't have to be everything to everyone all at once. And I think that's just a huge, beautiful reminder to all of us. So we don't have to be everything and everywhere at all times. And I think it's also challenging for me personally, because sometimes I'm like. Do I tell people about my hobby? Like for me, that's the biggest thing. I'm like, when someone asks me like at the playground, like, oh, what do you do? I, I'll just say it. I say I don't work but I host a podcast. And I think it's giving like validity to the work that I do as work is also the big thing, right? It's like we are it is possible for us to be something other than just a mom. And it is, we should embrace that. We should share that. We should tell people. We should tell the world. And I think the more we start getting more comfortable with that, and we see the positive responses and throw the other crappy ones to the wayside, then the better we'll get at actually supporting ourselves through these times of transition and adding things to our plate. And honoring different identities outside of motherhood for ourselves. So I just really appreciate you sharing your story and this journey. And I want to give you just a quick minute to share with the audience. How can they find you? How can they engage with you? Um, how can they just continue to interact with you past this podcast?
Katy (54:20.274)
Yeah, great question, Emily. So I'm online in a lot of different forums or formats. I'm on LinkedIn. My name is Katy Murray K A T Y M U R R A Y and I'm either Katie or Catherine across the board. And then everything's through katymurrayphotography.com you can find Katie and co which is my virtual assisting firm, which is more long term. So I know, Emily, that you do kind of like project basings mines more long term support. And then also on Instagram at either at katyandco.va , um, at Katie and co VA or at Katie Murray photography. And those are all just avenues of where you can find and link up with me. And I love to chat and connect. So anytime someone jumps into my DMS, like I'm here for it, or even sometimes I'll do voice messages back and forth with people. Cause I'm like, Oh my goodness, I want to respond to you, but I have so much to say. So let me just hit record on that. So. That's where everyone can link up with me and connect over there.
Emily Gorrie (55:23.755)
I love that. Well, thank you so much. I will make sure to get all of those linked in the show notes too, so it's easy for those listening just to grab whatever intrigues them most. And Katie, thank you so much again. I know we mentioned this briefly, I'm also on a podcast episode of yours, so as soon as we know the dates of when these are going out, I will make sure to link that one as well. So anyone listening who wants to hear a little bit more about your story and our conversations, head on over to your podcast and take a listen to that episode as well. So thank you so much.
Katy (55:58.29)
Yes, thank you Emily so much for having me today.